Crash when opening Character Sheets.

[erikbreau]

copied from Pelle Plutt's post:

Apr 5, 2010 12:05:36 GMT -5 grob1of20 said:

Apr 4, 2010 17:17:47 GMT -5 Ariakus said:

Also, I am pretty sure that whenever my character sings his Inspirations, that is the cause of some freeze ups or serious lag for my character but not the rest of the server, apparently

I get something similar. Any action that changes stats on the character sheet causes a massive lag spike if I have the character sheet open.

Erik, I have had the same problem for some time now too. I have mentioned it to you in the past but I said I would investigate it further.
As mentioned above, whenever I view the Character Sheet for more than ~10 sec I start lagging very badly. If I view the Character Sheet for a minute, such as when I level up, then it will not recover from the lag. The only solution is to log off and log back on again. Nowadays, I only view the Character Sheet very briefly, if I have to.

Also, I think this must be an Europa problem. I can view the Character Sheet for a long time on other PWs (2 PWs tested) without any lag whatsoever. And the problem arose about 4 to 5 weeks ago (sorry but I can't pinpoint it better). Before then, there was no problem with the Character Sheet and lagging.

[erikbreau]

Ariakus, Grobof20 & pelleplutt.
All 3 of you have been experiencing lags on opening your character sheets, some have even crashed!
I personally have never lagged/crashed on that, so, I can only presume there is something in particular that causes it.

Can each of you post your computer stats please. I want this resolved before Europa II is launched.

Erik.

[grob1of20]

I e-mailed you a dxDiag a while back. If it is lost, let me know and I'll resend.

Added:
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.7GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8184MB RAM
Page File: 4386MB used, 4194MB available
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
I'm using a factory overclocked Radeon HD 4890, branded by HIS, running driver version 9.1 (965MHz clock, 1050MHz RAM)

I've overclocked my RAM to 1660MHz, and tightened the timings to 7-7-7-20.

The CPU is slightly overclocked to 2.73 GHz with 1.23v VCore.

[erikbreau]

ummm, probably deleted...lol
Please resend.
Thanks.
Erik.

Apr 7, 2010 9:32:00 GMT -5 grob1of20 said:

I e-mailed you a dxDiag a while back. If it is lost, let me know and I'll resend.

[erikbreau]

Hummm, still trying to get an answer on this issue with Atari.

IMPORTANT: PLEASE post your computer stats [from a dxdiag run-command] so I can send it to Atari & Obsidian.

The following should be posted:

<System Information>
Operating System:
System Manufacturer:
Processor:
Memory:
Available OS Memory:
DirectX Version:
<Display Devices>
Card name:
Manufacturer:
Chip type:
Display Memory:
Current Mode:
<Game Info>
Expansions (if any):
Does issue repeat itself every time?:
Does issue take place on all servers?:
Comments:

Without this, I cannot get a resolution on this issue.
Thanks everyone.
Erik.

[erikbreau]

We have a potential culprit on on the lagging & crashing GUI character windows.
-other, custom made GUI windows- (ex: the PC tools GUI, the KEMO Storage GUI, etc etc etc)

To TEST this theory, I will be putting up an alternative server, one with ONLY the basic hacks and many many monsters. This will be the Europa Battlefield server which will consist of 4 terrains linked together and generic many spawns. There will be minimum hacks, none of them that have GUI windows in them.

Access will be in the same category as the main Europa Sever, but this one will have a password protection.
You WILL be able to use your server characters.
Password: battlefield

This server will be online tomorrow, please test the GUI windows on the character sheets and on leveling.

Thanks.
Erik.

[erikbreau]

Well, this is fun.

I have tried to build a side server, but the toolset keeps crashing ... all of this is aggravated by the fact that I have been working (teaching) despite the fact that I have been very sick for most of the week. You can well imagine that I have been well and spent when I get home in the evenings, so not much building.

This is aggravated by the fact that I have not heard from NTB, my partner on the E2 project, in weeks. I am worried as something may have happened to him. I hope he's ok, not to mention the fact that if he is not, the E2 project will come to a halt until someone can create the terrains... sigh.

I'm going to give the battlefield server another try, hopefully the toolset will be more cooperative after a full reboot of the system...

Erik.

[erikbreau]

Well, secondary server is a bust ... I have come to realize that once you add the hak packs that use GUIs, the contents and GUI windows are then integrated into the module in a permanent fashion.

What I had hoped to do with the side server was use the currently existing terrains, exported into a new module, but remove all the haks that have GUI windows, adding the various haks back in one at a time to see which one causes the lag...
This cannot be done.
The GUI accompanied haks are now added to the server's 2da files and short of building a new module form scratch and adding all the terrain transition, creatures, etc etc etc (meaning days, possibly a whole week of work), there will be no way to test what we already know is most likely the issue.

Let's examine this in a logical manner.
-1- Not all players are experiencing the issue, I for one am not and that is on 2 different computers using different OS systems and having both low and high end performances. But neither of mine have SoZ on them.
-2- Some, but not all of the SoZ users are experiencing the issue... is this a fluke? Possibly, but I can't tell unless I have every player's dxdiag readout.
-3- We KNOW it's a GUI related issue that only affects the character sheet, particularly when leveling. Thus it's in all likelihood it IS one of the server's hak-GUI windows interfering with the regular character GUI window (this is supported by the opinion of several NWN2 builders) ... however, which one?
...possible culprits are:
a) KEMO chairs GUI?
b) KEMO auction GUI?
c) KEMO storage GUI?
d) The Complete Craftsman's GUI?
...or possibly some other hak GUI that is not immediately apparent to me.

Solution? There is none really, noting short of rebuilding Europa and not use the chairs, storage, auction and crafting systems that are currently in place... Then adding them one at a time. But that means building new terrains and ALL of what Europa currently uses. The transitions alone for 4 terrains could take days to do.

I'm apprehensive about this, BUT, if you, the players are interested in REALLY finding out, then post your dxdiag readouts and I will build the new server with 4 areas.
However, I should point out that it could very well be a load issue as well, meaning the sheer number of zones Europa has could be causing this ... which means I would REALLY need to add more than just 4 zones ... we would need more along the lines of 25 exterior areas to simulate a proximate load to E1...
This may take a while (a few weeks) but it can be done.

I leave it to the players... I will do what they want... that is the Europa way.
;D
Erik.

[grob1of20]

If it is a load issue, there is no fast solution as you have stated.

If it is not, then a single zone may be enough.

I'd recommend starting with tests on a small area. Lundenwick and its adjoining lands may be overkill. A building with various script related events and npc's should be enough. One npc should set level 1 characters to level 2 for testing purposes (and level 2 characters to level 1 for further testing). A potion merchant would be a good idea too, since potions change numbers on the character sheet. Save a copy of the module with non-hak related npc's and stores before any haks are added.

Assuming it is one problematic hak, rather than a particular combination of two or more, with 3-4 builds, we can narrow down the list of possibilities quite a bit before testing one at a time.

Make a list of everything you think is likely to be the cause, and a second list of everything else it could be. Split both lists in half, and include one half of both lists in the first test build.

If the crash is reproduced, remove half of what's left from both lists and try again.

Otherwise, use the other half of the first two lists you made and try again.

If the crash is not reproduced after initial 1-2 test builds, we will know it is either a load issue or a particular combination of haks that do not play well together.

[erikbreau]

Thanks G1o20.

Here is what I have done.
I put a 9 area - all monster battlefield online. No NPCs, no houses, just door-to-door zoning and spawns. The very basic haks have been added, nothing more and none that come with GUI interfaces...
You may ause your server characters, I tied the vault to the module. Some of the items your character has may not appear in this server, I did not import all 900+ custom items so as to keep the server as light as possible, and in case it's the items that are the issue, gawd forbid.

Password is as mentioned above.

PLEASE record ALL test results here.

Thanks,
Erik.

[pelleplutt]

I have played on the Battlefield for 15 min with my Character Screen open for most of the time. I had no lagging issues at all.

I don't think KEMO chairs GUI or KEMO auction GUI are responsible for the issue. I'm pretty sure I have played on a PW with these GUIs installed without the problem with the Character Screen. It's more likely an issue with any of the other GUIs (KEMO storage GUI or The Complete Craftsman's GUI).


PS. I have emailed you my DxDiag file, Erik. I hope it will be useful in the troubleshooting.
**added**
<System Information>
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3
System Manufacturer: Apple Inc. System Model: MacBookPro5,1
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9800 @ 2.93GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2792MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 445MB used, 4238MB available
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
<Display Devices>
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9600M GT
Display Memory: 512.0 MB
Current Mode: 1440 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
<Game Info>
Expansions (if any):
Does issue repeat itself every time?:
Does issue take place on all servers?:

PSS. The Battlefield is a real minefield. Creatures coming out of nowhere! It's not a place for low level characters (and level 10 is probably a low level!!!) ;D
I love it!

[Haldir]

I tested out the Battlefield server today and could not produce any lag associated with opening the Character Sheet. However, curiously, afterwards I also tested the regular Europa server and could not reproduce any of the previous Character Sheet associated lag. Either this problem is gone or it might be associated with having more than one person logged into the server at once or in a group. Limited testing previously on Europa did seem to indicate the lag was worse (at least slightly) while in a group. I hope to test whether the lag is group associated at some point on both the Battlefield and Europa servers soon.

Hope this helps.

[pelleplutt]

I forgot to mention that I also went to play on Europa proper after the Battlefield session. I was surprised to see that there was almost no lag at all. However, it did lag after playing for some time with the Character Sheet open.
Maybe Haldir is on to something and the lag is worse when more people are online at the same time.

[erikbreau]

This is a very good point... we may be seeing the true culprit here, an internal GUI window... the party GUI windows!

We need to investigate this asap.

in the meantime, please, all of you, test the battlefield character sheet GUI and then, test it again on the Europa main server, but alone and then as a team. IF it is the party GUI, then nothing can be done about it (stupid Atari)

And yes, Pelle is correct, there are monsters of lvl 3 to lvl 20+ int here and the spawns are heavy... fortunately, you will not lose XP by dying which makes it a good place to hack-n'slash...

E.

[Ariakus]

I just tested the Battlefield server, and I had absolutely no lag whatsoever.